Helping Your Child with Vaccine Fear & Anxiety with Dr. Christine Chambers
Two out of every three children have a fear of needles. For many of these children, the fear may actually get worse as they get older. One out of ten adults has a fear of needles so significant that it impacts their willingness to engage with medical care—a reality that can contribute to COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy.
At a time when vaccines are on the minds of so many parents, clinical psychologist and child pain management expert, Dr. Christine Chambers, joins Dr. Lindsay Malloy to discuss how we can help manage needle pain and fear our children may experience. (Pro Tip: Many of these strategies work for adults, too!)
Dr. Christine Chambers is a clinical psychologist, Canada Research Chair (Tier 1) in Children's Pain, and Professor of Psychology and Neuroscience & Pediatrics at Dalhousie University. She is also the Scientific Director of a national knowledge mobilization network, Solutions for Kids in Pain (SKIP), whose mission is to improve children's pain management by mobilizing evidence-based solutions through coordination and collaboration.
Included in this episode about vaccines, shots, and needles:
How can we best prepare our children for receiving vaccines?
What should I do if I or my child is afraid of needles?
What strategies can we use to reduce the pain from shots?
How do parents’ emotions and anxieties about needles impact their children?
5 Strategies for Reducing Pain from Shots
Apply a numbing cream 30 - 90 minutes before getting a shot.
Bring activities or devices that will distract away from the shot.
Make sure the recipient is relaxed. Try a breathing exercise or encourage kids to tense their muscles like a robot and then let them loose like spaghetti noodles.
Have older children sit up instead of lying down.
If you’re breastfeeding, nurse infants while they receive their shots. Breastfeeding has been shown to significantly reduce pain from needles for infants.
Additional Resources About Needle Fear & Pain Management Mentioned in this Episode
“It Doesn’t Have to Hurt” by Dr. Christine Chambers at TEDxMountAllisonUniversity
It Doesn’t Have to Hurt: Proven Pain Control for Children
Skip: Solutions for Kids in Pain
CAMH (The Centre for Addiction and Mental Health) Vaccine Clinic
Bite-Sized Excerpts from This Episode
How common is the fear of needles in children and adults?
How to Prepare Children for Vaccinations, Shots, & Needles
Strategies for Reducing Pain from Shots
Should I reassure my child during a medical procedure?
How to Help Children (or Adults!) With a Fear of Needles
Meet Our Guest
Dr. Christine Chambers
Dr. Christine Chambers is a clinical psychologist, Canada Research Chair (Tier 1) in Children's Pain, and Professor of Psychology and Neuroscience & Pediatrics at Dalhousie University. She is also the Scientific Director of a national knowledge mobilization network, Solutions for Kids in Pain (SKIP), whose mission is to improve children's pain management by mobilizing evidence-based solutions through coordination and collaboration. Her research, based in the Centre for Pediatric Pain Research at the IWK Health Centre, is aimed at improving the management of children's pain. She has published over 185 articles in peer-reviewed scientific journals and was identified by the Women's Executive Network as one of Canada's Top 100 Most Powerful Women. Her award-winning #ItDoesntHaveToHurt initiative for parents generated over 150 million views worldwide, trended on social media, and was featured in national and international media. She is a leader and innovator in patient engagement, partnerships, and the mobilization of health research.
Full Audio Transcript
[THEME MUSIC UNDER INTRO]
Dr. Amanda Zelechoski: Can you say... “This is Dr. Amanda Zelechoski.”
Child 1: Why do we have to?
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Child 1: I can't.
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Child 2: [Laughter] This is Dr. Amanda Zelechoski.
Child 3: [Yelling] Lindsay Malloy! Ah!
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Wait, say Doctor Lindsay Malloy.
Child 3: [Yelling] Dr. Lindsay Malloy!
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: [Laughing] No, come back!
Child 4: This is Dr. Lindsay Malloy.
Child 2: Welcome to the [unintelligible] Parenting Podcast (laugher).
Dr. Amanda Zelechoski: [Laughter].
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: One more time.
Child 4: And then after that can I have a candy?
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: [Laughing] No.
Child 4: Please, Mommy!
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Okay, ready?
Child 4: The Pandemic Parenting Podcast!
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Excellent!
[MUSIC INTERLUDE]
Dr. Amanda Zelechoski: Welcome to the Pandemic Parenting Podcast. I'm Dr. Amanda Zelechoski.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: And I'm Dr. Lindsay Malloy. We are two psychologists, scholars, and moms, and together we co-founded Pandemic Parenting.
Dr. Amanda Zelechoski: We're here to share science-based research and help all who care for kids navigate this challenging time together.
[MUSIC INTERLUDE]
Dr. Amanda Zelechoski: Please note that the information contained in this podcast and on the Pandemic Parenting website are intended for educational purposes only. Nothing discussed in this podcast or provided on the website are intended to be a substitute for professional psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
No doctor-patient relationship is formed between the hosts or guests of this podcast and listeners. If you need the qualified advice of a mental health or medical provider, we encourage you to seek one in your area.
[MUSIC ENDS]
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: So tell me about getting shots.
Child 3: It hurts.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: On a scale of 1 to 10, if one means that there's no pain at all, and 10 means it's the most pain in the whole world, well, how much pain does it...is it getting a shot?
Child 3: Ten.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: You think it's ten? The most pain in the world?
Child 3: Mmhmm.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Okay
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Tell me about getting shots.
Child 4: Now I got one before, but I don't like it.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: What does it feel like getting a shot?
Child 4: They really hurt you.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: So, that was me interviewing my 6-year-old son and my 4-year-old daughter about vaccines, and as you could hear, they are mostly focused on the pain aspect. Just how much the shots hurt something that they talk about often.
So whether it's the host of vaccinations. Our children get in their early years or our annual flu shots, or now the COVID-19 vaccine for those who are old enough. So many of us children and adults don't like the idea of getting poked with a needle or seeing our children in pain, even when we very much know the benefits.
I was really excited to sit down with child pain management expert and clinical psychologist, Dr. Christine Chambers to ask her questions that my children and I have about shots and about needles.
Dr. Chambers is a Professor and Canada Research Chair in Pain and Child Health at Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia. She is also the Scientific Director of a national knowledge mobilization network, Solutions for Kids in Pain.
You can find more info about her work at https://kidsinpain.ca and https://itdoesnthavetohurt.ca and we'll be sharing and talking about some of those resources throughout this episode.
In this episode, you'll hear how to prepare children for vaccinations and needles, strategies for reducing pain from shots, how our emotions as parents can impact our children while they receive medical care, and so much more. I really appreciated how many practical tips she shared, ones that I've even tried with my own kids already.
As always, let us know your thoughts or questions by tweeting us @PandemicParent or by sending a message through our website https://www.pandemic-parent.org
[MUSIC INTERLUDE]
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: So the first thing I actually have is a little bit of a story about my then five-year-old, probably about a year ago when we were talking and he was asking me… I lay in bed next to him at night, right? So we have all these fun little conversations. And he was asking me how we were going to finish or be done with the virus and I said, well, there's a lot of, you know, really excellent scientists who are working on a vaccine. And we started talking a lot about vaccines and that was what was going to eventually end the virus. And at night, sometimes he would ask me to show him pictures of the scientists who were working on the vaccine, and I thought it was so sweet.
And then, like months into these discussions, he asked me what a vaccine was, and I said that it was a shot and he was not impressed anymore. He was like I'm oh OK well. Like I am not interested in that, I didn't know if the vaccine was a shot and. He'd totally changed his mind about that, so I just thought that was kind of funny. Of course, he's not eligible yet. But I mean my kids, like many kids, always ask if we're going to the doctor, like “are we going to have to get a shot?” So how common is a fear of vaccines or needles in kids?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, needle fears and needle anxiety are super common. I mean in kids and adults, let's face it, none of us like getting a needle at the doctor’s. And you're right, the first thing kids ask. The first thing even my kids ask when I tell them we have a doctor's appointment is, you know, “are we going to get a needle?”
The research shows that, you know, two out of every three children has a fear of needles, one out of every 4 adults has a fear of needles, and roughly one out of 10 adults has a fear of needles that's so significant that it impacts their willingness to, you know, engage with medical care.
So you know, if people often say “it's just a needle, you know it, it'll be over soon.” But the reality is, you know the pain and fear associated with needles. It is really a significant public health issue and you know, we're seeing it play out, you know, during the pandemic.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, I had no idea actually. I didn't know those stats you just said but even finding out now throughout the pandemic that I have adult friends of mine who are really afraid of needles and that it has affected their willingness. Or you know, just kind of how long they delayed maybe getting the vaccine. So that definitely surprised me.
How do we prepare our kids in advance for getting a vaccine? Is this something that we should know whether it's the COVID-19 vaccine or, you know, any shot that they might have to get at the doctor? Is it better to just kind of like, surprise them with it, spring it on them or you know? Or should I be talking to them in advance about it?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, it's a great question, and generally speaking it's best to just be honest and upfront with kids. Just providing a bit of back story for why they need the shot and you know why vaccines are so important. I think that really helps kids to understand, you know that there's a greater good and you know it for a greater purpose here.
Depending on the age of the child, you know, you may not want to tell them really far in advance. Now for some kids, telling them a month in advance they're just going to spend a month worrying.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Right.
But you know, for older children giving them a heads up anywhere from you, know five to seven days before. For young kids, even just the day before is, you know, is a good strategy. Some parents have, you know, get into the habit of just not telling their children they think it'll be harder to get them to the doctor's office if they tell them.
And unfortunately, that tends to backfire, at least in the long run, because what that does is you know eventually when the child realizes what is happening, it really erodes trust both in or the health professional, and you know, on the part of the parent they won't trust you the next time. If they say, am I going to get a needle and you evade it when you say no, when in fact they need one? So generally speaking, giving kids advance notice at least a couple of days for older kids is best.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: OK, no that helps a lot. I actually have a question here that I recorded from my 6-year-old and if you can't understand it, I will translate it.
Child 3: What can parents do to make shots easier for kids?
Dr. Christine Chambers: What can parents do to make shots easier for kids?
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, so I guess we talked a little bit about in advance, but what about, I suppose in the moment when you're at, when you're at the doctor's office.
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, so fortunately your research has shown that there's lots of things that parents can do in advance, and you know, during the procedure to make things easier for kids.
And so one of the major reasons why kids are afraid of needles and even adults is that they hurt, and so you know that that pain associated with the needle is often a source of distress, and in fact, you know when you talk to adults about why they're afraid of needles. I mean most of the adult patients that I've worked with can trace their needle back to like one poorly managed painful experience as a child.
So thankfully there has been tons of research on what to do to reduce pain from vaccination, and so there's a bunch of things that parents can do, and they're generally in three different categories, so one of those categories is a P for pharmacological and another P for psychological. And then a P for physical strategies. So we think about those three buckets.
In the pharmacological kind of category, there is a numbing cream that you can purchase at your local pharmacy, and it's not very expensive, although the costs you know can be a barrier for some people and this cream if you apply it to the skin. And depending on the type of cream that you get. Could be 30 to 60 to 90 minutes before the needle actually significantly reduces the pain associated with the needle, so there's tons of research showing that this cream really is effective, so I've used it on my own children.
And there's also a psychological benefit to, I mean, you apply it before you go. You talk about numbing cream, as some people call it. You know, a magical cream that will help the hurt. Then when you actually get to the procedure. Some of the physical strategies, and again the vaccinator will usually be well informed.
You know, in terms of the physical positioning, but having children sit up or older children at least sit up rather than laying down, get their vaccination. People have studied these different variables of just your positioning and how that can impact your pain experience. So usually the vaccinator is pretty well informed on those strategies. And then the psychological is really important and this is where you know your parents can play a big role, which is making sure that your child is distracted and relaxed.
So for distraction, I just bring my phone with me and make sure I have something novel on my phone that my kids will like to play or watch while they're getting their needle in terms of relaxation. It could just be taking some deep breaths, encouraging children to kind of tense their muscles so that they're tents like a robot and then relaxing them like a spaghetti noodle, and that kind of promotes relaxation. So those strategies, you know, really, really do make a difference and I, you know, I can't overstate the importance of distraction for young kids.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, we, well, I watched some of your videos before they had. I think their flu shots last year and so we got pain patches. I think they were at the local pharmacy and so we talked about how they were magic patches that were going to help them, you know, feel less pain during their shots and that definitely helped them. So it's interesting about the positions. So too I didn't realize that, so it's better to be sitting up than laying down?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, and you know when you have a baby too, there's other strategies. So for moms who are still breastfeeding with fascinating, this breastfeeding that's been found to be analgesic. It significantly reduces pain from needles, so you know for those early vaccinations and if we get to a point where you know infants are being vaccinated for. Her coat for Covid 19, then you know the simple breastfeeding you know can make a huge difference and reduce pain and again, that's easy for parents to do.
There's lots of you know stigma sometimes or misconceptions. Better word. People think that you know it's not good to associate needles with breastfeeding or that babies might choke if they're breastfed. But research has shown that that isn't the case and that it's really a useful way to reduce pain during meals.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, I had to push back a little bit about that. I remember when my kids were breastfeeding and I wanted to know when they were getting their vaccines and it's funny you brought up having like one bad experience.
I just remember this awful time of my toddler having to get his blood drawn which you know all toddlers just love to do and are so good at it and I was like seven months pregnant and I was trying to hold him and the nurse was getting really frustrated and I think my son was picking up on that right, and so I was just thinking as you were talking about.
How do, you know, you said one in 10 adults have a significant right fear of needles…? I think I got that correct so and just thinking psychologically about how our own anxieties and our own fear about the needles. I mean, we know that even infants and toddlers can pick up on our emotions, the emotions of their parents and so.
What do you recommend for parents in terms of how they are behaving or acting with regard to their own anxieties and fears? Maybe while their kid is having this done?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, it's such a great point and you know.
I think adults and parents really underestimate the impact that their own emotions and anxiety can have on their children. So it's really important to keep that in check, and one of my former Ph.D. students, Meghan McMurtry, who's now a professor at Guelph. She had a fascinating dissertation study where she looked at exactly this, so there's been a lot of research that's looked at the relationship between different types of parental behaviors and child pain and distress during needle.
So one of the best-known findings is that when parents reassure their children during a medical procedure, it'll be over soon. You're doing great, but that has actually been related to increases in child pain and distress during the procedure, which is a bit counterintuitive.
And so Meghan did a series of studies to try to figure out why like, why would reassuring a child make them feel worse. That's not the parents' intent. And interestingly, Meghan found that when parents reassure like it'll be OK you know they're doing it because they themselves are feeling anxious or worried and she did a series of experimental studies to try to get at this, but I was able to show that when parents reassure children they perceive their parents as anxious, and that is sort of what drives the increase in their anxiety and pain during needles.
So for parents, some of the best things that parents can do when their children are having procedures. Are using distraction techniques so OK, let's focus on something else. Let's count the tiles on the wall. You know there's lots of different things you can do to distract, give specific suggestions on coping strategies. So you know, “let's take a deep breath together” and then also just using humor, when appropriate, to try to just make the situation feel a little lighter, and so you know, sometimes we do get into situations where you know after a series of attempts, medical professionals can be getting stressed with.
It's OK to call a timeout and to just kind of regroup and come back with a slightly different plan and so just making sure that everybody is kept calm. And I think for parents often when procedures are happening, it's at a time of uncertainty. You might be in an emergency department. You're not sure if your child needs blood work because they're concerned and so for parents, you know it's more than just the procedure, at times it's worrying about their child's health and so really using these strategies yourself to stay calm and to stay focused on your child and offering really practical kind of distraction coping type statements really is best.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Oh good, I like that. That's a good transition just to thinking about doctors and nurses too. So I have another question here, from my 6-year-old.
Child 3: What can doctors and nurses do and make shots easier for kids?
Dr. Malloy and Dr. Chambers (in unison): What can doctors and nurses do to make shots easier for kids?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Again, another great question and you know of many of the strategies that we talked about for parents work, work with adults too. And, you know, the vaccinators, just being honest, being very calm, providing distraction, providing a lot of praise. And you know, we often talk about what you do before the procedure, what you do, you know during the procedure… But what happens after the procedure? It is almost just as important.
Another former student of mine, Melanie Noel, who's now a professor in Calgary. Her work is focused on children's memories for pain and she's actually found that it's not actually how much pain the child has during a needle and how much pain we remember, having after the needles over and that's influenced by anxiety and it's embarrassing for you know what adults including the health professionals say to that.
And so following best practices for vaccination and there actually is a national clinical practice guideline for physicians, nurses, and other vaccinators that was led by my colleague Ana Tadeo and myself and others have been a part of this. And so there are, you know, best practices around vaccine administration and you know things like positioning to make sure that you're offering the most pain-relieving experiences possible for kids.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Is there any sort of like go-to phrase or thing you wish every nurse would say or, I guess, say before just before giving a vaccine?
Dr. Christine Chambers: You know what I find is that many of them have their own sort of strategy that they've evolved over time. Most of it involves distraction, you know.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Christine Chambers: So kind of orienting the child's attention away and I think – for the most part I mean – doctors and nurses who administer vaccinations get really good at it because you know they don't have a lot of returning customers. If so, you know they do, really, they do really, right? Develop quite a skill set of being able to do this in an effective way, which is fantastic.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Looks true. I remember at our old pediatrician's office like they can be so fast and efficient and good with it that the kid is like wait, what just happened by the time you know, they're done. So yeah, so that's true. There could definitely be their own individual take on it on what to say.
So I was doing some background research to have this conversation and I was actually, really surprised to hear when doctors say that it's usually older children and teens who have the hardest time with vaccines. I don't know if that's consistent with what the research actually shows. I mean maybe I'm biased 'because I have, you know, toddlers and young kids, but I had assumed it was those younger kids that would really be the problem that, well, problem might be the wrong word to use there, but like more difficult with getting them, so is that the case and then why? Why is it?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, I mean I think middle fears and hesitations are present, you know, in kids of all ages, but I think it does become a little harder to manage when kids get older.
They have minds of their own. They're bigger than you, and so you know when you have younger children, I mean, you are much more in control as a parent, right? Like who you can control the medical decision making in the setting and you know what's going to happen.
You know, I'm a parent to four teenagers now, you know, unless they're on board, it's really hard to get them to do what you want them to do, and so I think maybe that's where some of that's coming from. Which is, you know, my 15 year old and one is 6, but right now there would be no me taking him to the doctor, if he didn't want to go. And so part of what parents need to do overtime is, and that's why that explanation that age-appropriate explanation from an early stage really is so important. So it's not just something that's being done to them that their parents are, you know, insisting on that it's really part of an understanding of the benefits of vaccination to yourself and to others. And there's so many opportunities to have these conversations now so that when they are older they can appreciate and internalize that themselves and it was funny.
One of my kids is 13 years old. Recently we were talking about vaccine hesitancy and you know some of the challenges of what's happening with the pandemic because everybody vaccinated and my son was like “I'm so glad I have parents who understand science and can help me make the right choices” right and so that that rationale and that developing a sense of why it's important, I think.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Christine Chambers: It is really critical. I also think you know making sure we offer children the best possible, you know, vaccination experience or whatever experience.
I mean children who have a negative experience with needles in the emergency department, you know, may then not just become fearful of that experience, but fearful of any new experience. And so you know, This is why we advocate for effective pain management as soon as possible so that children develop positive ways of coping so that when they're older they know that there are things that can be done to make it more pleasant.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah I was blown away like I watched your Ted talk and I was completely blown away about some of the relatively recent history of, you know, babies and pain management and I definitely was not aware of that history and it was just mind-blowing. So thank you for sharing that. We'll make sure we put that in the show notes so that people can watch that as well.
[MUSIC INTERLUDE - SPONSOR BREAK]
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: At Pandemic Parenting, we're committed to sharing our expertise and research in ways that are immediately accessible and useful to families. As part of our efforts to sustain and expand this work, Amanda and I are also available for virtual speaking engagements at your business organization, PTO, and more.
We want to help you and those you work with grow with and raise your children with the chance to do so in an environment that fosters and supports your mental health.
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[MUSIC ENDS - END SPONSOR BREAK]
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: So I read it and it might have been something that you wrote actually, but there's this 17-year gap between, you know, when research is done on a topic and when it's actually taken up as practice in everyday life or in, you know, maybe the medical system.
How do you think we can shorten that time period when it comes to things like vaccines and child pain management?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, that's a statistic that I and others cite all the time.
It's just fascinating to think about how long it takes for science to evolve and you know, this past year has been a real eye-opener in terms of we can't wait 17 years. There's for the results of science to get to the front lines, and so in terms of, you know, understanding you know the importance of making sure science moves quickly into practice and policy.
We've just had an incredible first-hand example of why that's important, but yes, it's true across many areas, and certainly in the past progress has been really slow and part of that is the way that research works right?
I mean, we researchers, we get funding to study a problem. We do the study. We published the results in a journal we present at a conference and then the cycle repeats itself. We use that track record to get another grant and answer another question and the way that the research system works if we're not incentivized or really you know, motivated or encouraged or rewarded or expected to actually make sure that the results of that research translates into improvements in practice and policy, and so that's the process of knowledge translation or increasingly rehearing knowledge localization and moving research into practice.
And it's a completely different skill set than you know, some scientists have complementary skill sets. They are really good at asking and answering questions and they also have an interest and, you know, talent for developing the relationships that are needed to help move research into practice. But not all scientists do and so this is one of the areas that I'm really interested in is how do we support capacity to improve the way that we move science into action for vaccinations, and for, you know, a wide variety of child health issues and shrink that 17-year gap.
And I often remind people you know, 17 years is an entire childhood. It's a whole generation of kids. To miss out on the benefits of knowledge that we already have and again this year, I mean, we've seen that it's more than just communicating science.
It's about developing trust and building relationships, engaging those who need the research in the research process from the very beginning. So it's a very complicated process, and I think one that we'll be reflecting a lot more about.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, and it's not even just – I mean because I'm sort of at the intersection of psychology and law. We see the same thing with the science and procedures that have been developed in, you know, in the research, just taking decades or more to actually become implemented in our legal practice, and in our legal systems. So yeah, it's fascinating. We definitely need a lot of work.
On that well, which is one of the reasons you started the It Doesn't Have to Hurt campaign, right? Can you talk a little bit about that and maybe tell parents where they can find resources related to it.
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, you know my interest in knowledge translation knowledge mobilization really surfaced after I had my own children, became apparent myself, and all of a sudden I realized that all this science that I had been publishing, contributing to presenting at conferences, wasn't actually getting used to the benefit of my own children.
So when I was taking my children and for procedures or a doctor's visit. That's all this research. Evidence just wasn't being used, and I knew that the evidence you know showed that if we did these certain things then you know they would have less pain.
And I was really interested in like why aren't people you know using this and so I did a fellowship in media and advocacy and policy and as part of my fellowship I created a YouTube video for parents, so it's just a very brief 2-minute video in which we shared evidence-based information with parents from the perspective of a young girl.
So after that video went live, we scaled up to more of a social media initiative called It Doesn't Have to Hurt where we partnered with a major online parenting logged in sort of digital media platform called Yummy Mummy Club and we provided the science on various topics and children’s paintings of vaccinations, as well as a variety of other topics. Then they basically translated it into social media images for Instagram, YouTube videos, blogs.
So we had a one-year campaign and it was very effective. We had a huge reach and engagement and Canadian parents really kind of became the primary disseminators of information about children's theme and then from that, we scaled up to what is now known as skip solutions for kids in pain which is a federally funded national knowledge mobilization that works. So we've really come a long way.
We've gone from, you know, a small video for parents, a short video for parents to a larger social media initiative, and then a much broader national network that focuses on connecting evidence with those who need it in the area of children's pain management.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Yeah, that video. It's great, that's the one that I watched before my kids had their flu shots last year, so we'll definitely make sure we link to it in the show notes and that's one of the things Amanda and I have been trying to do with pandemic parenting and it's, you realize very quickly how so how many different skill sets are involved in doing this kind of work.
And so we have people who help us create infographics and other, you know, social media type things, and so there's a lot of things we don't know and understand about marketing and about distilling that information in a way that's actually going to be helpful and practically useful for parents. And so yeah, we definitely need more of that training in.
I don't know where in grad school and lots of different situations. I think so, so I don't know if this is a fair question or not, but I've heard rumors that it could be very soon that we could have a vaccine. Fingers crossed for kids 11 and under, which both of mine fall into that category. So I'm hopeful about that.
Do you think that better management of children's pain and adherence to this kind of best practice of vaccine administration will affect vaccine uptake, moving forward and will actually help us get out of this pandemic at some point?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, well, that would be nice with that, yeah, but certainly I mean we know that pain and fear of needles is a contributor to vaccine hesitancy and so you know it may not be the number one reason why people don't get vaccinated, but it certainly is a reason and it is sometimes a joke.
It's a little, like a dirty little secret. People are embarrassed to admit that they're afraid of needles, I often engage with adults. They hear what I do and they will kind of confess to me that you know they have a fear of needles and so I think we really need to create more of a conversation around this and acknowledge that it is an issue for a lot of people.
There are things that you can do both to prevent and minimize pain associated with needles, and also letting people know that you know if your fear is so significant. That is essentially a global phobia. You know psychologists are really effective treatments for phobias. The treatments are working, you know, even just a couple of brief sessions with a psychologist. Yes, I mean. There's a lot of complex reasons why people don't get vaccinated and they're not always easily addressed.
But in my view, you know, treating and addressing their pain and fear associated with needles is 1 where we have tons of research. We know what works to minimize pain to treat there, and I'm seeing as we move along into different stages of the pandemic and certainly, now we're more interested in targeting particular groups of people who are, you know, not getting vaccinated for whatever reasons and seeing vaccine clinics you know, openly advertising that you know if you're afraid of needles, we are offering an experience.
I saw in Toronto we can each offer a vaccine clinic for people who are afraid of needles with, you know, individuals working there who are very sensitive to it. who can understand just that opportunity and that kind of flexibility can be huge for someone with a fear of needles.
So I think normalizing this, acknowledging that this is a problem for a lot of kids, a lot of parents, and a lot of adults. And then you know making sure that solutions are made available. Both solutions are immediate in terms of your immediate vaccination experience, but also in terms of helping people prepare in advance.
Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Absolutely yeah.
I'd imagine there's a lot of adults right now who are having to confront this fear, and they haven't had to for a very long time. Or you know, maybe even since childhood, if they, you know, if they haven't traveled or you know that much. Or maybe you know, don't get the flu shot for whatever reason, and now they're having to really confront this fear head-on with, you know COVID vaccination maybe being required for their work or school or all sorts of things so it's good to know that a lot of these same strategies that you talked about for kids will also hopefully work for adults.
So I guess as a final note, what is one thing you would want to say to parents who might be slightly traumatized from past experiences involving, you know, their kids getting very upset during vaccines, and so they're nervous about doing the, you know, the COVID vaccine with their kids?
Dr. Christine Chambers: Yeah, I mean I would say we've all had bad experiences and parenting is full of you know, good experiences and bad experiences. And you just never know what you're going to get.
But I think that you know working together, having a plan, you know, pulling up some of the information we have on you know our It Doesn't Have to Hurt website or kidsinpain.ca there's lots of great tips and tools there for parents videos here notes that if you have a plan, you can, you know, really have a much more positive experience.
There are fairly easy strategies that you can apply to make a difference, so don't be discouraged, have a positive attitude and you know, realize that there are things that you can do to help.
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Dr. Lindsay Malloy: Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Pandemic Parenting Podcast.
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